New Bengals linebackers coach Mike Hodges has been in a whirlwind for 90 days since he arrived at Paycor Stadium and has loved every minute of it. For the first time in his nine-year NFL career, he's not in New Orleans and is embracing his role on the ground floor as one of the engineers building a brand new defense designed by new coordinator Al Golden.
When Hodges took a breath this week in his conversation with Bengals.com senior writer Geoff Hobson, he talked about the excitement that comes from having a hand in a new, unique scheme yet to be unveiled. And, Hodges says he's looking for the best linebackers and fitting the defense to their skills rather than the other way around.
"We're not going to be a carbon copy of anything that any one of us has done anywhere else. We've built this thing together," Hodges says.
Hodges also talked about his relationship with Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, the influence of Sean Payton, the head coach who hired him in New Orleans, and his outlook on the April 24-26 NFL Draft.
THE CONVERSATION
GH: Al is a linebackers coach, so I would think that would foster a relationship right away.
MH: It's interesting because in a different lens, right? He's done so many different things, and he's had offensive history, he's had a head coach history, he's had defensive coordinator histories. He's been under different systems than I have. I was actually telling somebody last night and this morning, I've been here for what, 90 days? When you're in a system for eight years, you know it like the back of your hand. I know Dennis Allen's system really, really well.
The dangerous part of that is, can you open your eyes to something new or different, you know? That's what has happened over the last 90 days. I've put all those things down. You have the capacity to learn new and be open to different ideas. I've had a ton of growth in the last two months, just from a football standpoint.
I mean, there's been mornings when we sit in there for three hours. We had another meeting yesterday for three hours. It felt like a football clinic. It's just like, 'Oh my gosh, that's a good idea. That's a great way to say it.' And it doesn't necessarily mean new scheme or new technique. It just may be a different teaching technique, a different way to reach these guys. All those things have been really exciting.
And it's not just Al. It's the staff Al built. Sean Desai, Jerry Montgomery, the two DB coaches we kept on. And even the young guys we have in QC (quality control), they are really good. They're good teachers. I think we're going to have the teaching part down. Now we're going to have to make sure our connection with the players is the other key component where we can excel. Once they get in here, it's one thing to be able to teach.
I can teach you our cover four. I can teach my wife our cover four. But I have to be able to connect with everybody. And I think that that's going to be a key component. I think we'll excel at that, we just haven't had that opportunity yet.
Al is really smart, really detailed. He has an idea of what he wants, but he's also making sure that what we're doing is we're building this out as we collectively want it to be and that's just been really refreshing. It's been fun to build this thing out, but, ultimately, we're creating our own defense here. We're not going to be a carbon copy of anything that any one of us has done anywhere else. We've built this thing together. I've just really been grateful and excited about the way Al's managed us as staff. I've learned a lot from that perspective.
GH: You were in New Orleans when the Saints drafted Zack Baun, and you coached him. When I talked to him at the last Super Bowl, I got the sense that you really rely on the relationship with your players because you obviously still have a relationship with the guy. That was impressive. And he didn't go into Philly cold. He obviously went in there with the tools that you gave him to be a finalist for Defensive Player of the Year.
MH: I think the easy story is to write that the Philadelphia Eagles created an inside linebacker. I mean, we're watching tape here that's from New Orleans at times, and you see Zack doing things. It's like, wait a minute, and I'm like, you've got to understand. We had a really good room, and Zack got better.
Zack's been very kind in the sense that he's been very complimentary about his experience with me. And look, I went to Pete Werner's wedding a couple of weeks ago. And of course, Zack and (wife) Ali are there. Hell, we hung out for a whole night.
The relationship portion of this, I think I've told you before, is critical. Because if you don't have that, you can still coach them, you can still get them better, but you can't maximize it. And then also, I'd be lying if I omitted the fact that when I do lean into those guys and build those relationships, it comes back two-fold. I get a lot out of that. I feed off of that. I will do it with every player that comes through here. I would argue that it's hard to find a linebacker somewhere that says, 'Hodges treated me poorly.' I won't do that.
Call it old school, call it new school, call it whatever. It's just the way I want to do it because it's who I am. Build a relationship. I'm going to coach them hard and I'm going to get them better.
GH: You were hired by Sean Payton in New Orleans, one of the most successful head coaches ever. What did you take from him?
MH: He was definitely an influence … Just watching him constantly pushing both the staff and the players to maintain a level of avoiding complacency and allowing us to continue to play well. It was just fun to see. The culture was great. He was constantly trying to do different things in team meetings. He was constantly challenging guys, both on the field and off the field, and so just really seeing him cultivate that culture to allow us to have that nice stretch of winning.
I thought winning was easy in the NFL. Little did I know. I think probably the biggest thing would be the culture because I wasn't in there with the offense and learning all of those intricacies of what he did there. But the unit overall was tight, and, man, we were rocking and rolling there for a minute.
GH: He's a Bill Parcells disciple. Parcells was a linebackers coach. Are we going to have a little bit of Parcells at linebacker? Sean's got the Parcells streak in him.
MH: He definitely did. Obviously, it's a mentor of his who he still talks to, I think, regularly. I don't think. I know, regularly. He'd come in after a win and just get after the staff. You're like, 'Ah, he must have talked to Bill this morning.' It was kind of an inside joke. It was just another way to make sure that we didn't have or allow complacency to seep in. I've never been around Coach Parcells, so I don't know him.
I think (new Jets head coach) Aaron Glenn will do his own twist to it in New York. I think Sean does his twist because he probably finds ways to relate to the players a little bit differently, just because the game requires that nowadays. When Sean walks into a room, he's going to own the room, and it's been impressive to see. I'm sure I've taken some of that on, just subconsciously.
What I think is important is that Sean was himself. Sean was genuine. Sean was one of one, you know what I mean? And he bought into that. That takeaway for me there, allowing myself to just be me. You obviously absorb certain things from different people, but you've got to make it your own, and don't just be a carbon copy. And he's not a carbon copy of Bill Parcells. And I think that that's important. I think that's an important lesson that I've learned over the last decade of doing this.
GH: What do you think of your new room?
MH: There's not many of them. I'm very excited about Logan (Wilson) … He can do it all … I'm here to help him grow. I want this to be a player-ran room. At times, I may have to pull authority, but that's going to be after a good, collaborative conversation. We're going to be very open in here.
We've got some young guys. I'm excited to see how Shaka (Heyward) grows. Oren Burks is a good ad for us. He took advantage of his opportunities that were presented last year on their path to the Super Bowl late in the season. But I think that we've got to re-develop the room.
We've got a chance, because we've got one really good one that we know and we're comfortable with, and a lot of teams are searching for that one … I want to have some competition in here, and so that's going to be important for the next month.
GH: The Bengals haven't drafted a linebacker in five years, so you don't have to be Paul Brown to figure out you're probably looking, and I'm wondering what you think of this year's crop of linebacker prospects.
MH: I think it's a good crop. I think there's a good group up top and then there's a gap, and then there's another kind of bundle of guys in the middle of the pack that are going to compete for that three, four spot. And then at the back, there's a bunch of guys I'm actually going through right now. I struggle sometimes on the back end of the draft, because everybody's got some sort of flaw, right?
Ultimately, at that point, you're looking a little bit at what you need, and then you're kind of betting on, what are your odds? This guy had 115 tackles, but he doesn't have the measurables, while this guy has all the measurables, and maybe he's the breakout fifth- round, sixth-round draft pick who in three years he develops into a guy who's going to get another contract.
GH: So what do you need?
MH: I think when I get asked that question, I think it's important to find the best player. You know what I mean? I think it's dangerous to say, hey, we need a WILL or a MIKE or a SAM. or anything like that, because when you put that in there, you're not necessarily finding the best player that fits your system. You're just finding a position that fills a need.
I think what we have to do is be able to find the best player and then adjust the scheme. Let's not pigeonhole ourselves into our scheme by saying we have to have this kind of guy and miss out on a player that could be a really impact player. That would be my approach.
GH: Do you think Logan's potential running mate is in the draft?
MH: I think there's one in there. We've got more needs than just linebacker. And so where you value that draft pick, we have to lean on our decision makers upstairs to do that. I'll get up there next week for draft meetings, and I'll have a nice sales pitch, and then we'll wait and see what happens at the end of the week.
GH: You were last with Zac when he was a graduate assistant coach and you were a linebacker at Texas A&M about 15 years ago. What has stood out about him here as an NFL head coach?
MH: I think the way he's ran this staff and built this staff. I think our staff is excellent. I think bringing in Al and allowing Al to build out his staff, and then cutting Al loose. One thing that has stood out is that he's really empowered us defensively to build what we want to build. And I feel like he empowers us.
Outside looking in, he's empowering his guys offensively as well, to build out this offense around Joe (Burrow) and what they want to be. We don't have to be the Baltimore Ravens. We don't have to be the Philadelphia Eagles. We don't have to be the Buffalo Bills. We don't have to be those people, although they've had sustained success. We just have to be us, and then maximize it.
There's no feeling of elitism, and I say that because when you have this aura of 'I'm better,' or 'I'm elite," "I'm the head guy," there's a natural disconnect, and I don't feel that with him, at least early on with the staff. It will be interesting to see how the players gravitate towards him, because I know Joe likes him.
And I think to capture the hearts and minds of the core players in the locker room with him, Logan, I think it allows (Taylor) to walk into that locker room and smile at a guy. Go dap it up with a guy and have a regular conversation where there's the chance for a coach to cool out the best because the players trust you and they feel comfortable and safe around you. I think about the culture a lot, and I think that that's a big thing.
GH: How did you guys get along, the young offensive coach and transfer walk-on linebacker?
MH: I was the starting inside linebacker and I mean the starting inside linebacker on the scout team (before Hodges became a pro prospect) … He always treated me well. That's a big part of the reason I wanted to come here and then the relationship continued past that.
Even when he was at (the Dolphins), hell, I stayed at his house, and he let me in the building, and I went to an OTA and talked all night with him and Sarah, and the kids. I can't say that we were best friends over the last decade, but we've definitely stayed in touch. And he's always been somebody I've been able to reach out to him and take some guidance. He's been really helpful. I'm happy to work for him. I'm really excited about this staff. I can't emphasize that enough.
GH: You were in New Orleans with Drew Brees and you were a first-hand victim of Burrow-to-Ja'Marr Chase late in a game in New Orleans. Pretty good to go from Brees to Burrow.
MH: It's funny you say that because in New Orleans, I remember, I was with Mike Nolan. He was the linebackers coach for the first three years. And Peter Giunta, who had been in the league a long time. I remember those guys emphasizing to me, 'Don't take Drew Brees for granted. Don't take Drew Brees for granted. You don't get around these types of guys very often.'
Mike was speaking on that because he was around John Elway early on, and then got around Drew for his last three years. And so he was around two guys that are going to be Gold Jackets.
I don't know that I can, out of respect to Drew, put Joe there yet. But I have definitely told people that it is exciting to be around somebody that no one disputes is great. You can make certain statements that are facts and that's one of them.
