With the Bengals opening the most extensive portion of their spring voluntary workouts Monday featuring their first 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 action, pass game coordinator Justin Rascati sits down with Bengals.com senior writer Geoff Hobson to talk about taking their elite offense even higher.

Rascati, 42, heads into his third season after the Bengals followed up leading the NFL in passing in 2024 with a No. 6 ranking despite using three different quarterbacks. One of them, Joe Flacco, 41, was a college opponent of Rascati's. The addition of another college peer this offseason in Josh Johnson, 40, gives Rascati a unique perspective in the evolution of NFL offense that he agrees must have a branch known as the Zac Taylor System to join the Shanahans, McVays and the like.

Rascati was kind enough to talk between stepping out of a session of drawing plays with offensive coordinator Dan Pitcher and prepping for another meeting.

The Conversation

GH: Two o'clock meeting?

JR: Yeah, offensive staff meeting. Pitch does a great job keeping us organized. We're in constant communication, watching practice, watching different studies we've done around the league, some of the things that we've added or tweaked this offseason.

We'll meet together as a staff (daily) to get ready for the next few weeks going into these OTAs. I think for us, we've got an extremely talented offense, and our biggest thing this offseason was how can we find ways to be more explosive. So we've kind of done a deep dive into ourselves, and also what teams are doing around the league, and how we think different things can fit us moving forward. It's been great so far. Excited to get to OTAs these next three weeks, and then have some momentum going into training camp.

GH: How cool is it to be almost 20 years removed from your college career at James Madison, and you're coaching two of your quarterback peers from small schools in Delaware's Joe Flacco and San Diego's Josh Johnson? That was so long ago, it was known as 1-AA. Now it's FCS.

JR: It just shows how talented they are to be able to play in this league that long. I didn't get past a rookie minicamp tryout with the Bears, and then I played a couple years of arena football, but it's been fun to follow both of their careers. Now it comes back full circle where we're all working together.

GH: You had some big passing days in the indoor league. You even caught a pass from your good friend, the late, great Jared Lorenzen.

JR: It was fun. I enjoyed it, played in Peoria and Lexington. It wasn't the NFL, but it was all I had. I was chasing the dream, but I got two years of arena football, had a blast, met some really good people.

GH: It's not your first stop with Flacco.

JR: Joe and I were in the same conference playing against each other. Joe and I definitely joke about it because a few years ago we were in Denver together.

GH: When he showed up this time, what did he say?

JR: It was great to see him again and work with him again. He's obviously a phenomenal player, even better person. It's been a lot of fun. We tell A-10 or CAA stories from our conference.

GH: Can you repeat the best story? The one about that pregame?

JR: My senior night, he was a junior, I was a senior. It was my last home game there at JMU and the quarterback coach/OC reminded me to go ahead and turn around and watch a real quarterback throw.

GH: Did you? I guess that was in warmups.

JR: I did. We laughed about it because obviously he's extremely talented, a lot better passer than I was.

GH: Joe Burrow mentioned it last week in his news conference. Getting back to the explosive plays of '21 and '22. How do you do it?

JR: I think a few different ways, but I think the main thing is just finding ways to marry the run and the pass and continue to get the run game going. Plays off the run game, whether it's shots down the field, or movements, keepers, play-action. There are so many ways to marry the run and the pass, but I think for us it's just continuing to find ways to improve. The guys have been open-minded this offseason, worked really hard, and I think there are some new wrinkles that we put in place this offseason that continue to build on what we've done. And we've done some really good things.

GH: When Burrow came into the league in 2020, Zac made him comfortable with a lot of elements from LSU (empty backfield, shotgun, three and four wide receivers), and it paid off in a Super Bowl. As he has evolved the playbook with different formations and going under center more, it seems like Burrow is comfortable in whatever style.

JR: He's the best in the game, and there's nothing he can't do at an extremely high level, right? He's open to whatever we need to do to be more explosive and continue the momentum of the run game, which obviously helps the pass game, and he's excited about it. He's put a lot of work in this offseason. He looks great. We've put in some of those concepts under center, and he looks comfortable. He's got experience doing it. It definitely helps our run game, and being able to get under center is important and a big emphasis for us going forward. We've done a lot of work this offseason working on some of that stuff. It's been something we worked on the past month or so as we've got on the field with the guys and now forward into OTAs and training camp.

To be the best offense in the league, we have the ability to do that. Whether it's playing under center, from the gun, whether it's running the ball 50 times or throwing it 50 times, we have the ability from week to week to be flexible and attack the defense in many different ways.

GH: Before you got here, what school of offense would you say you were you in?

JR: I've been lucky as a younger coach to be around some really good people, whether it's position coaches or systems working for certain coordinators. In the NFL I've been with (in Denver) Rich Scangarello, and he came from the 49ers with Kyle Shanahan in Atlanta and San Fran. And then Pat Shurmur comes in the next two years as the OC. A lot of Andy Reid influence with Shurmur, so I was exposed to that for a couple of years. And then going to Minnesota with Kevin (O'Connell) in that system.

GH: O'Connell's system comes straight out of Sean McVay's, right?

JR: He's put his own tweak to it with the personnel he's got in Minnesota.

There are more similarities (around the NFL) than you think. In terms of our passing game and a lot of concepts, there's really a lot of crossover across the league. A lot of us are doing similar stuff in the pass game. It's just a matter of what personnel (groups) we're running out of what formations, what motions we use with it. I think there's always something new to learn when you go to a new place. We're not all identical, but there's definitely a lot of crossover.

GH: So, what are the Bengals? They talk about McVay and Shanahan, and what they do in KC. But no one has who the Bengals have on offense. Should we be talking about the Zac Taylor offense? The Zac System?

JR: Absolutely. We're our own system, and Zac's done a great job building this system around the players. You're always evolving as a coach. Every year the roster is different, so there are different things you study and want to tweak, and add and subtract, and he's done a hell of a job building the system here, and we've had a lot of success. It's been a lot of fun to be here to learn from Zac, to learn from Pitch and the rest of the staff. It's been a good learning experience for me.

GH: The passing games seem to all kind of meld together. Zac was with McVay and McVay was with the Grudens, and Jon Gruden was with Andy Reid. Reid goes back to Mike Holmgren and the West Coast Bill Walsh stuff. But Walsh didn't run it with four receivers and motions, of course.

JR: McVay was a lot 13 personnel (three tight ends) last year, so, as coaches, we're looking to find ways to create an edge. You're studying in the offseason to see what fits us the best. I think the players have bought into some of those additions and tweaks that we've worked on in the last month, and now we're heading into OTAs with them.

GH: When you came from the Vikings in 2024, Ja’Marr Chase had that Triple Crown season with some of those motions you brought from O'Connell and Zac had from McVay. How many different ways can you move him?

JR: You have to. With a guy like Ja'Marr, he's going to get a ton of attention from the defense, so you have to be creative in the ways we align him presnap, how we motion him. Whether he's the single by himself on the backside, or he's aligned to the passing strength, he's inside or outside, he's in the backfield. Pitch and Zac and our staff have done a great job finding those ways to move him around.

It can be a challenge at times, finding ways to get him touches with all the attention on him, but that can't be a reason not to get him a ton of targets. It's our job as coaches to find ways to get him the ball. If you're static and they know where he's going to be every snap, it makes it that much harder. So we figure moving him around, and trying to find matchups and ways to get on the ball is the best way to go about that.

GH: What O'Connell does in Minnesota with Justin Jefferson?

JR: Jefferson is similar. A guy like that who draws that much attention. Not only on early downs, but on third down, in the red zone, it's always those challenges week to week to figure out how teams are going to play us. Because there's a lot of times when you watch the tape, Ja'Marr's not on that tape, right?

So you've got to predict how you think they're going to try to defend Ja'Marr, and then having a guy like Tee (Higgins) as well. Definitely there are different things teams like to do to us that are more game plan specific for our guys. We've done a great job, I think, predicting what we're going to see, and then adjust it throughout the game, and the players that we have give us the ability to do that.

There are times we might not have carried something into the game plan or spent a lot of time in practice working on it, but we can make those sideline adjustments with the guys we have. Obviously, they're talented, but also they're extremely smart, and have the ability to adapt and adjust in a game and go out there and make those plays and execute at a high level.

GH: Burrow alluded to defenses going back a little bit to how they were playing the Bengals when they were getting those big plays a few years ago.

JR: It's always a challenge week to week to know how teams are going to play us, because if you've got guys like Ja'Marr and Tee on the perimeter, there's always those games playing specific schemes that people have for us. But we do get man coverage, so when we do, we've got to take advantage of it. I think we have the ability to do that. We've got the system in place to do that. The beauty is we've got a great group of guys that just work really hard and are extremely talented that love football, love to compete, and it's a lot of fun to come to work every day and work with the staff, work with the players, and just find ways to improve and win.

GH: The thing in that college pregame with Flacco when the coach was joking with you. It's his arm, right? Both then and now?

JR: Yeah, it was impressive. I had heard a lot about him, and that was the first time I got to play against him. Extremely talented, big arm, just like we all see today.

GH: Did you guys talk before or after the game?

JR: I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure we talked after the game. Usually, you talked to the opposing quarterback. But when we got back together in Denver in 2019, we definitely had good memories, and had some good stories about the best conference at that time with JMU, Delaware, William and Mary, Villanova, Richmond, New Hampshire.

That was back when Chip Kelly was at New Hampshire. I believe there were only 16 teams at that time in the tournament, in the 1-AA playoffs. Now it's FCS. You look back every year, and I feel like we had four or five, maybe six teams in the playoffs, so every week was a challenge. Really good league, well-coached, talented rosters. To me, JMU, William Mary, and then Delaware was right behind them in terms of rivalry.

GH: And Josh had a great career at the University of San Diego, maybe in the West Coast version of your league. Were you aware of Josh?

JR: Absolutely. When you're an FCS quarterback, and you're seeing guys' stats from around the country. I believe he was up for the FCS Heisman (one of three finalists for the 2007 Walter Payton Award), yeah, I definitely was familiar with him in college, and followed his career being an FCS quarterback that gets drafted and plays in the league.

The first time I met him was here and we talked about that. It seems like yesterday we were playing and following each other, and I had never met him until this offseason when he got here. He's awesome, he's fun to work with. He's very talented, he's smart, he's experienced, works really hard. So, it's been fun to have him here. He's got a lot of personality. We've talked a little bit about our college days. I think you've got a great, obviously really talented quarterback room, but really good people too.

He had a great college career, and then to still be able to play for that many years. Just being with him now. He's out there, and he's moving around really well, throwing it well. Flacco is the same way. So it's like, how long can you guys play? Until you're 50? He's a talented passer. He's accurate. This time of year we're not doing much against the defense, but you can really feel his knowledge and experience when you're sitting in the meeting room with him, and you're talking ball, and you're installing the offense.

I'm sitting in Brad's (Kragthorpe) quarterback (coach) meeting, and going through installs, there's probably not much that Josh hasn't been exposed to playing in this league as long as he has. I'm certain for him that there's a lot of "same as," it's just different terminology. It's awesome being around guys like Burrow and Flacco, and now Josh. Guys with a lot of experience.

GH: I would imagine when you get a guy like Josh who has been in so many systems, you're pretty fluent with each other.

JR: We are because I think there are a lot of similarities to other systems that he's been in. When you've been in this league that long and have been forced to learn different offenses, you probably find different ways to learn easier than others. I feel like he's picking it up very quickly. He's asked great questions. He's got great insight on different concepts or schemes or the way defenses play certain things. As a coach, when you're around those guys, it's a lot of fun. It's like being around another coach when you're in that quarterback room.

GH: What was the most impressive thing Flacco did last year coming in?

JR: Just his ability to come in and learn the offense and play at a high level. He's got the experience, he's extremely talented, he gave us a chance every week to win, and as everybody can see, he still has a ton of talent, and he's been great for that room with his experience and his knowledge of the game, and I think everybody enjoys being around him. It was impressive for him to come in on a short week like he did, and perform the way he did.

GH: I guess that's the most impressive thing. What he did in the first nine days.

JR: This just goes to show you how there's not a ton that he hasn't seen since he's played in this league for that long. For him, it was learning our terminology, and then kind of getting a feel for the players with the timing and stuff like that. He's done it for so long at such a high level that it was a blessing to be able to get him here.

GH: How did that Delaware game go?

JR: Well, we came out on top, and it was because we had a really good defense.

GH: You must have outgunned him. (The Nov. 4, 2006 boxscore shows Rascati threw for three touchdowns and 211 yards in James Madison's 44-24 win in which Flacco threw for a touchdown and 291 yards.)

JR: I don't know. We got his number that night, I just remember we played well as a team. That was probably the best team that I was on at JMU even though we didn't win it all. We had the talent and some good experience, but to win a national championship like we did my sophomore year, a lot of things have to go right.

GH: Flacco did not win a national championship, right?

JR: I think he lost in the finals his senior year.

GH: Do you guys ever talk about that? That you got a championship?

JR: No, no. I think we just share stories about the conference and about the rivalry, and we have a lot of respect for each other's schools.

Look, it's almost 20 years later and I'm coaching him and he's still playing. That's all you have to say.